Recently, a Facebook friend of mine who is a filmmaker, posted something that was a great topic of controversial discussion regarding our latest film DANGEROUS CALLING.
Why was it so controversial? Because DANGEROUS CALLING is a Christian Horror film.
QUESTION: Is the Christian Horror / Thriller / Suspense genre a good genre for Christian filmmakers to be involved in? Can it be used for the Kingdom of Christ? Or is it a tool of the enemy?
Below are two opposing positions on the topic. One is my friends, and the other is mine. I’d ask that you read them both in their entirety and then provide your own input and thoughts by leaving a comment on this blog post. Let us hear your voice!
To protect my friend’s identity, and respect his position, I won’t name him, but are some excerpts of his original comment that conveys his thoughts:
What I am about to say will be shocking particularly because it is coming from me, a Christian who also happens to be a filmmaker. I had been hearing a lot of “promo” stuff about a new independent Christian film that to my surprise was picked up by Cloud Ten Pictures, and well, I did take a quick look at it.
Looking at the DVD cover for the film caught my attention right away. Two words entered my mind and they were “fear” and “evil.”
It’s being marketed as a Christian thriller. This in itself is very disturbing. Occult films are on the rise and thrillers as a genre are far too close to horror. Prior to my life as a Christian, I struggled far too much in this area. I had a regular diet of horror. The sex, nudity, drugs, profanity, lack of hope in Jesus was enough and all the enemy needed to get a firm hold on me.
A frightening still from a scene in DANGEROUS CALLING
I’m not saying this film is occult per se but it is far too close to occult, and we should be very very careful. Movies like this need to be approached with caution.
The problem I’m having is not the film itself, but the dangerous territory we move into when we think it is okay to dabble in thrillers. Once people, and even the Christian community, get comfortable with it, then it’s horror. Once this happens Satan has won, he has successfully found a way into our hearts once again.
It’s important that people understand clearly what I’m saying. I’m not saying that this film will corrupt everyone’s mind. It most certainly will not. For me personally, it would encourage evil. It would make me believe that it is okay to do horror films.
The point I want to illustrate is one thing leads to another and then another and it snowballs into something big. Before we know it, Christian Horrors will be on our doorstep. We don’t need this kind of programming in our brains and hearts. Again it is important to emphasize that the problem I’m having with DANGEROUS CALLING is the potential of what it could encourage. It is too close to the occult.
A film like this would encourage negative thought patterns, paranoia and fear. These are the tools of Satan to rob us of our God given joy.
When it comes down to it, we all must make our own decisions and choices about what we watch. What affects one person doesn’t necessarily affect another. I know how a film like this would affect me.
The youth culture will undoubtedly praise this film. I cannot. I just hope God breathes wisdom in our heart before it is too late.
Respectfully and in Christ’s love, (Name omitted to protect privacy)
Now I responded to my friend by saying this:
While I respect your position, I must agree to disagree with you agreeably.
The question that is raised is, “Can this genre of film be used to the advantage of the filmmaker who seeks to glorify Christ through film?
This is a question that various camps disagree on. Some of the more far right, arch conservative groups say NO! Absolutely not! While others are more like the Apostle Paul who when faced with multiple graven idolatrous images of false gods on Mars Hill, used the “Unknown god” to his advantage, to share the Christ with an audience who otherwise might not have listened.
A painting depicting the Apostle Paul on Mars Hill using the “unknown god” to reach the lost for Christ through something they understood
Although I’m pretty far “right” myself, I am personally in the latter camp. I believe that, as believers, we should be “wise as serpents and harmless as doves” Matthew 10:16.
I believe that like Paul, we should use everything in the world around us to bring about the knowledge regarding Christ and His marvelous gospel of grace to a world that so desperately needs to hear it.
Another Christian Horror / Thriller / Suspense film DVD cover, this one for THE FAMILIAR by filmmaker Miles Hanon
Some folks who would never watch a typical Christian movie, will watch a film like DANGEROUS CALLING or THE FAMILIAR. I personally believe that we need to stop preaching to the choir with our films and use the “unknown god” of filmmaking to our advantage to reach the lost world for Christ.
So there you have it folks. Some opposing views on a very controversial subject.
We’d love to hear your thoughts. So please chime in and let your voices be heard!
Please share your honest thoughts. It is ok for us to disagree on this topic.. but let’s discuss it.
God bless! Your friend and blogger… Eric
Recently, a Facebook friend of mine who is a filmmaker, posted something that was a great topic of controversial discussion regarding our latest film DANGEROUS CALLING.
Winton,
If you read the full note, you'll see that I'm pretty far right myself. I'm so far right that I usually have to make three of them to go left.
Having said that, I was referring to the small percentage of extremely far right. The kind that won't even make three rights to go left. The kind that would circumnavigate the globe in the "right" direction in order to take a step to the left.
One of the things that I avoid on my blog is politics in general. In that sense you are probably "right" (no pun intended). But truth be told, I don't walk on eggshells. I speak what is on my heart and mind. I doubt people would be so shallow as to not watch our films because of my political reference to a very select few.
If they do, and they are Christian… I'll pray for them and meet them when we are with the King. If they do and they are Christian.. they can pray for me and do the same.
Thanks again for your comments and the comments of everyone else. It is great to see so many people chiming in.
Hope you all decide to follow the blog. Just be logged into your FB and use the button on the "right" ~pun intended~ side of the blog that says "Follow this blog"
Eric
There is nothing wrong with "shocking" people in the realization of the Truth. In my Christian Fiction Mystery novel, Angel Falls, I use death, deception, betrayal, confusion and other tools to bring about the fact that satan is very knowledgable in the ways of Christ and uses that knowledge all the time for evil. Dealing with a persona that exists on the destruction of humanity is not pretty and very frightful and should be presented as such. As long as the message is there about the Truth, the presentation can be (within limits) graphic. Author Alan Riehl
Personally, We all know that the Bible says that the Gospel must be preached to all the world… Now, this is a definite task, as not everyone speaks our language, shares our culture and interests etc.
Now, while one person may like a genre of something another may not. I think that God knows this, and to give everyone a chance to hear the Gospel, he is taking the different things and making them his to reach persons who would otherwise not be reached…. For example, here in the Caribbean, reggae, soca, dancehall and calypso are the main music genres. A few years ago, there were no "Christian Soca music" or "Christian dancehall" etc. However, artists such as DJ Nicholas and Chevelle Franklyn who used to sing this kind of music have become saved and started using their singing talents to sing songs in these same genres to make Christian music to glorify God. This will give people who are not Christians to hear the Gospel in a format that they would accommodate.
Now, it created a big debate as to whether these can be considered Christian music.. but now, the debate is over.
God will/can use whatever is available to Him to his advantage if he wants.
What we should consider is this….. IF THIS "CHRISTIAN THRILLER" GENRE IS OF GOD, THEN IT WILL STAND… IF NOT, THEN IT WOULD FALL.
————
God reading,
Kenice.
I think for the nay sayers in Christian thillers and horror to be so against it is ignoring the 1000 lb gorilla in the room if I pretend Satan doesn't exist he won't bother me… It reminds me of my daughter when she was very little covering her eyes and saying out loud "You can't see me now" Just because her eyes were covered didn't mean I couldn't see her did it? But she thought so. Satan is a roaring Lion looking to devour. We as christians cannot just cover our eyes and pretend he doesn't know we are there. In fact if we are covering our eyes with satan in the area he may just eat you whole bones and all so to speak cause you never saw him coming… With a christian thriller it deals and can deal with anything from the healing of rape/incest in finding G-d still loved the person and has a plan for them still in some ministry even to the orginal offender.. Imagine a movie where a woman is raped and goes to her rapist in jail and begins to witness to them and brings them to christ through that forgivenss.. What a testimony of taking lemons and making lemonade for G-ds big Lemonade stand.. When it comes to Horror I am not sure about you but for me the occult has always been around.. I grew up in the days when the kids were Head Banging to Shout at the Devil by Moely Crue.. in that case for me it was almost a form of worship to the devil in the way they head banged and jammed out to it.. Now we have the like of Rob Zombie and others who children of all ages are listening to and for other cultures there are the Gangsta Raps which promote sex killing and Sorcerys/Pharmacos/drugs as Revelation would put it from the greek. Talking about smoking Bluts/marijuana and dealing crack again toools the devil uses in greed and addictions… then dealing on the occult level directly those who are truely involved in occult have families that have prayed and looked for answers in how to deal with it and the fall out that comes. Movies can in fact be a teaching tool for them and a deterant for others to stay away..
Does anyone remember the story about the 2 boys driving along one was a christian and the other was not..the christian lives through the wrecking of the car the non christian doesn't. The one that was not came to the boy who was from hell asking why didn't you tell me? why didn't you warn me.. what a great witness of a tortured soul lost asking why we as christians do not do the commission and be a witness to the world we touch.. each person deserves to be told and witnessed to but we don't as it is an uncomfortable thing sometimes..
I always wondered what if we offered a job paying 40 dollars an hour at a church only setting without telling the qaulifications and then when the people showed up for the interview you asked how many did you witness to this morning or today…Yesterday…This week… How many in our churches would qaulify? Sad numbers I would bet.
The bottom line and point is this too many churches have a feel good message and happy people in happy pews singing happy songs and playing happy family and when they get home deal with all the real world or for that matter spiritual warfare, don't have the skills becuase our churches are not teaching them what to look for and how to deal with it in a biblical manner.. Christ lived and walked and gave all the examples of what to do but unless they are sitting in a church pew with the scriptures up on a screen with a feel good message every week and never a hard message of dealing with the enemy or suffering or any other inflictions of life. They will never will know because they don't read and study their bibles and don't ask questions.
As for some in our churches they are so caught up in the Rapture they never address those not saved… Anytime you bring up how things might be in the Tribulation for being a witness to those left behind what to expect they dismiss it with "I don't worry about it I won't be here for it" They will not even entertain the point of the tribulation and how those who they didn't get a chance to witness to will have to endure the tribulation if there were a rapture..So I will ask every christian here… One thing..If by chance there was no rapture and you did have to go through the tribulation, when it came to the point of having to take the Mark of the Beast, Could you ever imagine watching your wife or husband endure torture or rape while you are forced to watch unless you take the Mark of the Beast… That is all it would require give up your soul and we will quit torturing your spouse or kids or parents or brother and sisters..Just take the Mark…. Could you stand for christ then?? what if you and your family being in the tribulation starving with no warm clothes and the only way to get food and clothes and stop the pain of hunger for your family is to take the Mark, would you be able to stand up for Jesus? Again the question is what if the rapture never happened for you and you had to endure it would your faith be strong enough? Jesus said though "he who is first shall be last and last shall be first." Yet so many are so selfish in their salvation that they are bilnded by the stained glass and not the enlightened by the Light of Christ Just my take
YBIC
David
David (comment #47) we couldn't agree more! That is exactly why last July we started our project that we just finished called 'Paranormal'. Unbeknownst to us Paramount was working on ramping up "Paranormal Activity" at the end of this year! God's timing never fails!
We knew that dealing with ghosts, ghost hunters and hauntings in general from a Christian viewpoint was going to be controversial, but we felt that it was truth that had to be revealed.
The enemy is the king of lies and schemes, he has done such a terrific job of fooling the unsaved in believing in ghosts, mediums and the sudo-religions that it can evolve into. To me the more impressive deception is he has managed to make it a complete do-not-touch subject for Christians in general! How clever is that? Not only is it a grand deception that can lead people ever further away from the savior Jesus Christ, it has managed to disable the enemy from training their soldiers on the subject because it is "taboo".
Try this test: Go into Church Sunday, and ask around, "Do you believe Ghosts exist?" or "Do you know the Bibles viewpoint on ghosts?" and you will be shocked about the variety of answers you get.
So what does this have to do with this thrillers or horror movies in general?
The secular versions of these genres work to enhance the public and Christians misguided viewpoints on a lot of these subjects. WHY NOT strike back with the same medium? Show the TRUTH and the VICTORY on screen, let people leave the theater empowered and knowing they serve the God that has created everything, that has whipped the enemy and that HE is the one living in fear, and that we as children of the living God don't need to be.
That was more like my 4c.
Thanks c10 for starting this thread – it has been a terrific read!
~Tiaan Kruger
Executive Producer – Paranormal
Horror? What could be more horrible than going to hell?
I totally agree Tiaan (#56)
As a film maker myself, I would have to agree that we HAVE to stop preaching to the choir with our movies – if we're trying to reach the LOST. Movies like Facing the Giants, Fireproof, Secrets of Johnnathan Sperry, etc. are fine for edifying, encouraging and building up the body of Christ. And they do. I've been inspired by each of those films. I suppose there is a place for that. But like my wife said, "If you need to have a movie inspire you in your walk with Christ, I would question how deep your relationship with Him truly is. I mean come on, we have His Word and church and small groups and testimonies that should already be doing that right?"
Considering the enormous amount of time, money and effort that has to go into making movies, why waste it on the church when there are so many who are lost and dying… and going to see Saw XII, and Halloween 82 in the movie theaters. We have GOT to become viable in the entertainment industry. There is no question about it, movies and television have an ENORMOUS influence on culture. If we want to reach the culture, we have to start making movies, television shows and music that they will actually go see and listen to. I mean seriously, what chance does Johnnathan Sperry have going up against G.I. Joe and Transformers? ZERO.
We talk about making "Christian movies" and the world says, "Isn't that nice. They have their own movie." They don't go see it. So, I completely agree with the idea of using the "unknown god" technique. I think Christians need to make secular movies (movies with mass appeal – done with excellence), but not compromise on moral values. You don't have to show gore to scare people. You don't have to have sex and nudity to show love or interpersonal relationships between your characters. Language on the other hand… I have a different opinion on this. To write BELIEVABLE dialogue – especially in conflict, I think you need to write it as it is in life. Even as a Believer (not proud of this), I am prone to a curse or two when I get angry. That's real. That's life. Besides, ONLY Christians get wrapped around the axle about that anyway. Non-believers don't even hear swear words. It's just part of everyday dialogue. So, in that regard, I'm not afraid to write it (only if needed to advance the story making a scene more believable).
I think the same is true with trying to reach the horror genre. They are NOT going to go see Facing the Giants. That's not the type of story that would ever appeal to them. Likewise, they are not likely to go to your church youth group activity or see the next great evangelist coming to a church near you. So, how are you going to reach them? You have to go where they are – just like Jesus did. You have to tell parables that they will relate to in order to reach them.
- Rob Skiba II
Writer/Director
The Revolutionary Film Project
To the poster that is not ERIC, I would definitely suggest that if Horror/Thriller material is what you struggled with prior to coming to christ that you stay away from it. There may be a reason you feel uncomfortable by it, and as I beleive you pointed out there are other genres you can focus on. Just as I would not suggest every person who struggled with addiction will be able to minister in that area to others.
We are making headway in the entertainment industry. People are no longer looking at Christian made movies as inferior. So why wouldn't Satan want to divide us on this issue, if we begin fighting one another with this much passion, we aren't fighting him. Turn that fight in his direction and we will definitely see some changes.
Several years ago, Frank Peretti introduced a couple of books, "This present Darkness" and "Peircing the darkness" These were "accepted" and I use the term loosely by the Christian community in much the same way. We were letting Satan in, by talking about Spiritual Warfare in such a matter. If those two books (Hint, Hint Cloud Ten) were made into movies, they would be deemed in the horror/thriller genre because they deal with demons.
I recently caught an episode of a popular TV series where a Character was demon possessed. Her family in an effort to save her, tied her to a chair. They were doing everything they knew how. Finally, in exasperation, and to comfort themselves they begin quoting scripture. The possesed women quiets. As Christians we all know why. I prayed that for once mainstream TV would followed thru but of course they didn't.
Wouldn't it have been wonderful if they had seen the effect, and realized they had the key all along. That each time they said the name of Jesus, the demon had to quiet because it too had to bow the authority of the name of Jesus. Why couldn't or shouldn't we step up and create that type of movie. Of course alot of Christians won't follow them, Just like they called Carman, Petra, and some of the very music we now use in Worship not of God. But what about those who watch this type of thing as a regular entertainment Diet? What if they stumbled onto this movie or another, not realizing that somewhere in the middle the answer to every thing they seek would be presented too them. The Supernatural is real! Hollywood is embracing it and finding their own incorrect answer. Christian film making needs to do the same. Because WE HAVE THE RIGHT ANSWER! We know who is Master of the Wind is, We know WHO is the ultimate authority here is. For we are not Fighting against Flesh and blood enemies, but against evil rulers, an authoriteis of the unseen world, against mighty powers in this dark world, and against evil spirits in the heavenly places. Therefore put on every peice of God's armor so you will be able to resist the enemy in the time of evil. Then after the battle you will still be standing firm!
Bridgett
What I don't like about some of the Christian movies is when the actors/actress are not dressed modestly. We have enough problems in society without this problem in Christian films. It really ruins it for my wife and I when we watch a Christian movie have someone is dressed inappropriate. So now I have to be carefully of buying Christian movies!
Dennis
Perhaps this guy that opposes horror and thriller films feels we should eliminate the book of Judges too. There is tons of sex, homosexuality, murder and scary stuff in the Bible. If it's ok for God to use these topics for teaching, why isn't it ok for us? Last I checked we were supposed to be following God's example? did that change? Oh wait, changing the Bible is the basic definition of a cult! and to compare the genre to pornography??? come on.
It's a movie! Intended for entertainment. This is why people run from Christians… because we aren't like Christ at all. We argue over stupid topics instead of loving on others, and we attack fellow believers. Has he even seen this film? If you knew the Daws Brothers at all, you would know that they are about as far away from the occult as you could get. Shame on you. They told a story that was clean. No nudity, no foul language. What the heck is your problem? This story is about politics in the church, not horror.
Perhaps as Christians, we should only be doing jobs/careers with other Christians. This would be great! a movie theater only for Christians. A restaurant, only for Christians. Neighborhoods, only for Christians. Cars, only for Christians. Accountants, only for Christians… It would be the perfect Christian society. God would be so happy that we are truly "in" this world and not "of" it.
WOW!
Paul Morrell
http://www.sumoJACK.com
As the writer and director of Dangerous Calling (along with my brother), I'm quite interested in this discussion. I'm actually going to come down on the side AGAINST Christian horror. I'd much rather see Christians producing straight horror films in a way that glorifies God.
My brother and I didn't set out to make a Christian film. Our goal was to make an entertaining film in the thriller genre. The story just so happened to take place in and around a church and involved Christian characters. I'm pleased that film has an important message for the church and that we were able to positively portray Christians in our film. However, I firmly believe that it was our desire to make an entertaining film that has been the key to Dangerous Calling's success and not any calculated plan to disguise our message as a Hollywood thriller.
It bothers me when we try to use films as Trojan horses to sneak a message in. We package films as entertainment and then deliver a sermon. Audiences don't appreciate that. This is also true of films produced by those on the political left. Films are meant to entertain. If they're not doing that, then you're actually hurting your message. A used car salesman might be trying to sell you a great car, but if his methods are slimy, you're not going to buy it.
Christian filmmakers should be just as excited about entertaining an audience with a compelling story as they are with sharing the incredible message of the gospel. Otherwise, I'd question whether or not filmmaking is the best avenue for them to be sharing that message. Filmmakers should be students of film – all genres including horror.
So to bring it back around, if a Christian wants to make a great horror film, there's no reason it can't be glorifying to God and contain a powerful gospel message, but it had sure better be scary!
Josh Daws
Writer/Director of Dangerous Calling
http://www.dawsbrothers.com
Since when the horrors of hell as described in the Bible is entertainment? What fellowship has light with darkness? And at what point is Christianity going to stop looking like the world and more like Christ? We already have the peddling of the Gospel in print media and music, now what? On to the movies? WHAT NEXT?????!!!!!!!!
Wow Josh I think you just managed to loose a lot of respect on here. You sure you should be with Cloud Ten?
I think horror, when used right, can certainly be used to glorify God. There is darkness in our world, and we should not deny that. It can be inspiring to watch God work through the most horrific events for the good of His Kingdom. Again, it depends on the movie and how it uses its message.
I am personally a fan of horror movies and Christian horror books, especially those of Frank Peretti and Ted Dekker. If you read Ted Dekker's Veritas Project teen series, the books are very disturbing towards the end, but they tackle moral and philosophical issues from a Christian standpoint, with an emphasis on trusting and standing firm in God even when the world seems to be collapsing around us.
Of course, each one of these genres is not intrinsically God-pleasing… perhaps because all of them are results of a fallen nature. However, History is God's great novel (or film, if you would)! There's plenty of horror in scripture. Historically, you see God allow plenty of Macbeths and Hamlets and Julius Caesars and Benedict Arnolds and Palaiologi and Mohammeds and Saladins and Leo Xs, not to mention the Hitlers, Mussolinis, Stalins, Husseins, Trotskys, Theodoras, and Bloody Marys.
-The fact being, then, that I believe God has plenty of thrill and horror in his story. I imagine that horror is a very touchy, borderline subject because I can't imagine how a movie entirely about heads getting chopped off could be God-honoring. However, the Left Behinds are somewhat thrilling yet completely God-honoring. Why not do in film what Jenkins and LaHaye did in prose?
Let me be brief: Whatever the medium or genre, the theme (theme as in lesson)must remain God-honoring. A movie about a mass-murderer or dictator could be used to teach the audience the value of human life, or the injustice and cruelty of a system such as fascism.
Interesting debate… Very interesting. I'd like to ask how is the film different from the horror or thriller "House" by Frank Peretti and Ted Dekker?
IF you ask me, House was great and Dangerous Calling is okay. There will always be scheptics. @Josh (post 62)- I disagree with your post. In fact, I find this startling….. If your brother and yourself didn't set out to make a Christian Film, then why is Cloud Ten Embracing this movie which was not intended to be a Christian Film…. Makes you wonder where Christianity is heading
As someone who is currently writing a "dark" story with Christian themes I have to say this debate has really given me food for thought. Both sides have offered intriguing arguments, but I want to address the articles use of "the unknown god" in scripture. The article is offering this piece of scripture as evidence of things of the world being used to preach the gospel to unbelievers. However, I feel this is a bit off the point. First, Paul didn't build the alter to the unknown god. It was already there, erected by the unbelievers. So using this as a reason to say that we ourselves can build (make a movie in the case) something similar to that of the world seems to me to be the exact opposite of what Paul actually did. Paul simply used the unbelievers lack of knowledge against them. He pointed out that they had all these "gods" that they worshiped, yet still had to include one that was unknown to them. He proved that they lacked knowledge and wisdom on the very subject of the idols they had erected. Paul didn't build an idol or an alter to prove his point, he used their work against them to reveal their own thoughts on the subject.
Look at Acts 17:16-While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was greatly distressed to see that the city was full of idols.
He wasn't happy to see the idols, he was distressed. Paul preached first the gospel. Those who were listening thought he was merely babbling about foreign gods, but Paul was preaching about the resurrection of Jesus. It was only after this that Paul referenced the alter to the "unknown god". He was simply saying that despite being very "religious", they lacked knowledge about the one true God and their alter to the "unknown god" revealed their ignorance.
While there may be some very good arguments for the use of horror in "Christian" films, I don't believe this is one of them.
May the Lord bless and keep all of you.
Fred
Wow, some strong opinions here – great! Let me address a couple of things. First, how do we choose which movies Cloud Ten wants to be involved with. Remember, that not all of our titles are PRODUCED and CREATED by Cloud Ten. Some like, Dangerous Calling are ones that we watch and decide that they have a worthwhile message to share, and are entertaining. I think the message of Dangerous Calling is that sometimes we (and I will include everyone I know in that group) can be intolerant based on our own beliefs of what is good and right and what honours God. In the movie, we see that taken to an extreme, and while the actions of the characters in question (not here to spoil the story) are in fact extreme, they are not so extreme as to be unbelievable and that to me was the scariest part of the entire experience. Sometimes we take ourselves a little too seriously. ANother issue here is the very widely disparate interpretations of "horror". We are not talking about a slasher movie with gratuitous violence like you'd see in SAW or TEXAS CHAINSAW movies. W'ere talking about a THRILLER MOVIE that will draw in viewers that you wouldn't find in a church basement on Sunday night watching Faith Like Potatoes. If you want to reach to the unsaved, sometimes that means stepping outside of the Church. Does that mean standing outside a bar and witnessing to drunk people? That's certainly how Billy Graham spent a lot of his time in the early days of his ministry. And as for the use of fear as an evangelistic tool – I say absolutely. If the message is right and the intent is right, then God can use any vehicle for good. Some people respond to "believe and you will go to Heaven" and some respond to "believe or you will go to Hell". The Bible uses both. Hell is not just a place to be aware of. It is a place to be TERRIFIED of. Does that make Hell an inappropriate topic because it's ugly and lacks the message of love? I guess that's what we're here to talk about. But as someone who has written a lot of end-time stuff over the past twenty years I have to say, if you want some good horror – read the book of Revelation. Forgive me if this sounds a bit rambling, I just woke up with my laptop on my chest and decided to chime in.
Paul Lalonde
Cloud Ten Pictures
Here is my 2c on this. As Christians are we not suppose to bring hope into other peoples lives, not fear and horror? If we create films that are about killing christian's, and in a horror/thriller film way, would we not be risking pushing people farther away from Christ? Causing them to have fear that the same thing might happen to them. As has been said by many people before, TV and Film is one of the biggest influences that people use for making Decisions. It's called Marketing, and if were marketing horror, and fear what good does that do the people that see this that don't get the point that TV is just a form of entertainment, not what to base your decisions on.
I guess this might also sound like some rambing, but unlike Mr. Lalonde I havn't fallen asleep… yet.
Travis Kunze
GMP & KE
I think it's interesting that in all this discussion, we don't have a common definition of horror, let alone "Christian horror." And, I should also point out that the horror genre of years past is not the same as horror today. I think of some of the earliest horror movies that I remember: Frankenstein, Dracula, Wolfman, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde….in all of those movies, the horror was caused by a man who turned into an evil being because something caused the restraints of society to disappear. While not Christian, per se, these horror movies explored the depravity of man and the answer to dealing with the horror was found, in many cases, by gaining those moral restraints in society that many would cast aside.
I have often said that the greatest horror story of all time is the story of the Gaderene Demoniac. The first horror is the story of the man who, possessed by demons no longer is fit to deal with society. The second horror is that the former demoniac, cleansed by the word of Jesus Christ, is still no longer fit to deal with society. The fact that the Gaderene Demoniac…rather the former Gaderene Demoniac…doesn't fit into society is a message to the church, reminding us that when we are cleansed by the blood of Jesus, we won't necessarily fit in with society. Society tries to press us into a mold that is not too bad…but not too good.
I'm hoping that Dangerous Calling will make a comment about Christian society (based on what I've read) that will call us to repentance. It sounds from what I've read, as if the horror deals with what happens in the church. Ultimately, if the movie ends with redemption through Christ being portrayed as man's only hope, whether overtly or subtly, then I can support it as Christian drama in the horror genre. If, otoh, the story is dark without redemption through Christ…it isn't Christian.
eric, step away from the keypad….way too many deletes, lol on the matter, when i came to christ my grandpa would try to scare me in to becoming a christian, i would laugh and he would tell me about the great tribulation and the antichrist and that one day if i didn't accept christ i would go to hell! and there are many christians that use that same tactic, where they want to scare people with the bible, what's more horrifying than stoning people to death, great wars and battles, incest, rape, etc…but the bible has all of this great material but it always has a teaching at the end, we always learn from them
I believe that if a film truly glorifies God, that we should,
at least, be open-minded about it. Certainly, we, as Christians,
have to speak the language of the natives (the lost), while still honoring the Lord. Can that be tricky sometimes? Yes, of course
it can, but we seek His will in all things. In all areas of the
arts, we seek His will, and part of that, of course, is reaching
the lost. To witness to them, we must be able to attract them.
This is perhaps where things tend to get sticky sometimes. We need
to remember that we are "in the world, not of it." Since we are in
the world, we can't hide our heads in the sand, and believe that
non-believers will seek us out. We have to meet them where they are.
We know that the mission fields are not limited to foreign countries. Filmmakers, musicians, writers, visual artists, all, are part of one
of the ripest mountains of culture, now more than ever before.
People crave entertainment, and if we can use that for God's glory, shouldn't we? If God has gifted us in the area of the arts, we are obligated to follow into the areas where He leads us, where we will
find the lost, while always remaining sensitive to His Spirit.
As a Christian viewer, I can choose to see the movie or not, based
upon what the Holy Spirit speaks to ME. As artists, though, we must
be willing to reach out to the lost, while keeping our integrity
intact. I know that when I'm reading through the Bible, there are
parts that are so horrific, particularly in the Old Testament, that
I can't wait to get past them, yet I know those parts are there for
a reason. God intended for them to be there. There is a purpose.
I believe that if we truly seek His will, His purpose, He will lead
us where He wants us to go, and we must be willing to follow. We must
do this prayerfully and with accountability. I believe that the
Church needs edification now more than ever. We need to be supporting each other, and if something is God's will, we need to be able to lay aside our own opinions, and follow Him. In order for us to reclaim
the 7 Mountains of Culture, and media is one of them, we must be
willing to go to the mountain. As long as God is leading, it's safe
to follow.
Lisa Fink
Christian Writer & Actor
So here is a great idea for all the christians lets get a campfire and sing kumbiya and tell each other happy feel good things.. Let's just go back to the 60's era and sing songs of love and peace and pretend nothing in the world is bad and there is no reason for fear.. So when satan comes knocking on our door with real problems and oppression give him flowers and sing him a happy song about the love of the one who created.. i am sure satan will be dancing and skipping along singing right with all of us right?? Maybe we can just tell Satan you were a bad boy go to your room you are on time out would that work??
Here is what it comes down to Satan in all honesty doesn't care if you are saved or not and could careless if he gets your soul He wants to oppress and to take your soul not because he wants it but because he is jealous and mad and doesn't want G-d to have it… He does it so he can hurt G-d not you are just collateral damage on his mission to try and take the throne of G-d and to imagine how much G-d loves you and me and all others imagine equally when a soul is lost or oppressed… When my child fell and got hurt I hurt along with her..When she got older and made choices that I don't feel are right again I hurt because I know the choices she is making are going to hurt her.. So why would it be anydiffernt for we who are G-ds children>> As G-d's Children we as christians and older more mature in christ brothers and sisters in christ have been given a duty and commission to raise up, teach and also protect our fellow christians…So if you know giving an 8 yr old charge of a fatboy harley is dangerous why do you turn your head and just hope for the best instead of correcting teaching and starting them out corrctly with all the possible dangers that could happen and how to ride a motorcycle correctly so one day they can ride a harley fat boy if they so choose when they are taught and prepared… Again Our job as christians is to give the message and just like watchmen we are to warn all of those around us about coming danger and prepare for any battle Eze 3 and 33 We are watchemen Eph 6 put on the whole armor of christ
Eze 33:1 AGAIN the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
Eze 33:2 "Son of man, speak to the children of your people, and say to them: 'When I bring the sword upon a land, and the people of the land take a man from their territory and make him their watchman,
Eze 33:3 'when he sees the sword coming upon the land, if he blows the trumpet and warns the people,
Eze 33:4 'then whoever hears the sound of the trumpet and does not take warning, if the sword comes and takes him away, his blood shall be on his own head.
Eze 33:5 'He heard the sound of the trumpet, but did not take warning; his blood shall be upon himself. But he who takes warning will save his life.
Eze 33:6 'But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at the watchman's hand.'
Eze 33:7 "So you, son of man: I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; therefore you shall hear a word from My mouth and warn them for Me.
Eze 33:8 "When I say to the wicked, 'O wicked man, you shall surely die!' and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand.
Eze 33:9 "Nevertheless if you warn the wicked to turn from his way, and he does not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul.
Eph 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age,[fn3] against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Eph 6:13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness,
Eph 6:15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;
Eph 6:18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints–
Mat 10:12 "And when you go into a household, greet it.
Mat 10:13 "If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you.
Mat 10:14 "And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet.
Mat 10:15 "Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!
Mat 10:16 "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.
What does it mean to be "Wise as serpents and Harmless as doves?? Anyone with an answer to this??
YBIC
David
I would love to hear more comments from people who have actually seen Dangerous Calling. I have seen it several times. It is not 'Texas Chainsaw'. I believe every pastor and youth pastor will identify with the content and have fought these same battles. The overall message to me is about a pastor who has been beaten up by a church before and now struggles with giving a church what they want to hear or standing your ground for your convictions. This is a movie that needs to be seen. The 'horror' if you want to call it that, is that spiritual warfare is going on in our churches. Most people in the pew see our conflicts as just that and do not realize that we are at war…a spiritual war that is going on. There is just no pretty way to illustrate that. This film does a good job of portraying what is going on in the church and how pastors struggle with the pressure.
I know these two young men. I know their walk. They are genuine believers who walk by faith and have a desire to impact Hollywood with the truth of Jesus Christ. Go to this site and read the interview with them: http://www.christian-movie.com/dangerous_calling_interview.html .
Watch the movie and then make a comment. This is not slasher horror. It is 'Alfred Hitchcock' intense drama.
Anna and Kenice, I think you may have missed the point of my comment. Dangeous Calling can very fairly be described as a Christian film. It's also a very entertaining movie. That's my point. If we want audiences to get our messages we better be giving them what we're promising. If we call it Christian comedy it had better be funny. Christian drama needs to be dramatic. And yes Christian horror had better be scary.
We've had the opportunity to screen DC with several mixed audiences of church and non-church people. We've had tremendous feedback from both. Our film isn't Fireproof, but our film is being seen by people that would never watch Fireproof or FTG. This has sparked countless conversations about our faith. Why don't you reserve judgement and see it for yourselves?
As a student Minister of a 'liberal' protestant Christian denomination .. the United Church of Canada .. I have to say .. I agree with Paul .. whole heartedly ..
that which we know as 'God' .. is beyond our capacity to understand .. as is HIS plan .. or how .. or whom HE chooses to fulfill that plan .. Daniel Miligore writes .. "The problem of God is also a continuing topic of philosophical discussion in our time. An important critique is advanced by process philosophers and theologians who argue that traditional doctrines of God are hopelessly inadequate because they view God as absolute and unaffected by the events of history.” Karl Barth writes .. "“In the light of God’s self disclosure in Christ as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, it is necessary to say that speech about God is made possible by virtue of God’s own speech and not otherwise. We do not decide in advance that flesh and blood cannot reveal the truth of God. There are no a priori grounds for such an assertion, or indeed for the converse claim that humanity does have the capacity to render God accessible. Only in the light of the fact that God has spoken, and reveals Himself as the Lord, do we learn the He is sovereign over the relation between humanity and himself. God’s revelation in its objective reality is the incarnation of the Word … It becomes the object of our knowledge; it finds a way of becoming the content of our experience, and our thought; it gives itself to be apprehended by our contemplation and our categories. But it does that beyond the range of what we regard as possible for our contemplation and perception; beyond the confines of our experience and thought. It becomes the object of our knowledge by its own power and not ours. Everything that one believes reflects and says about God the Father and God the Son … would be demonstrated and clarified basically through God the Holy Spirit, the vinculum pacis between Father and Son"
Here's a different question since this one seems to have "lost its way" and escalated along the thread. Is it ok for a Christian filmmaker to make a horror movie?
Fantastic Blog Post somewhat on the topic… Not really taking a side in this debate, but a great perspective:
http://www.philcooke.com/power_of_stories
Paul #79 Yes by all means it ok for a christian filmmaker to make a Horror movie.. Just keep in mind and all involved in crew to have the eph 6 verses in mind and as I am sure you do all members on set begin with and through each set take time for prayer as we would know this is one a touchy subject but if done to glorify G-d well worth it! Much Like Lightning boy in the "Passion of the Christ" being hit multiple times by lightning while on set the enemy will be a roaring lion when it comes to the light being exposed on his ways and lies… As with the same movie it was so moving that hardened men who don't know what tears are left misting alot. as brutal and blunt as the movie was the message was bold and true and through that witness with even satan roaming through the movie scenes somewhat an edge of thriller horror to it. the message Glorified G-d and did so across all denominations and faiths..Our Message must be bold and shed light of truth no matter how ugly what is in the dark maybe to be seen in that light so the truth is told Matt 5 tells us to not keep our light under a bushel basket but to let it shine so all can see.. if that is What Jesus said to do, and even by his own actions and examples did then if as in this verse lead
Mat 5:14 "You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.
Mat 5:15 "Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.
Mat 5:16 "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.
If Christians can not handle horror in a Christian venue,such as a film, then we might need to stop reading the Revelation.
Thanks josh for clarifying. I appreciate that.
As a fan of scary movies, I think this is a great discussion for Christians to have! Especially with "horror" movies like "Paranormal Activity" selling out theaters right now.
I'm VERY intrigued with the upcoming Christian movie with a similar name coming out soon as well. Anyone know more about this one? http://christianfilmnews.com/1943/paranormal/
I've produced several films with edgy, adult-themed content, but always within the strict limits of my production code and always with a message built in. In a couple of my films, a character experiences Conversion and is then seen in a changed-life state. In other films, there are various references to Biblical doctrine and principles in one way or another. Some of my films have implied sex, but nonmarital sex is never presented positively. And when editing, I ask myself whether a problematic scene, as edited, might cause a weak-willed 12 year old boy who's just hit puberty to become aroused. If the answer is "maybe," I re-edit until I can honestly answer "no." I also show drug use, murder, whatever the story requires. But negative behavior is never glorified. I've had a Feature film accepted at a Horror/SciFi/Fantasy Film fest, in the Fantasy category. It was an alternate-reality, parallel-universe type film that showed the long-term consequences of one very bad decision. The themes included incest, murder, and suicide. The audience praised my film as a very welcome relief from the usual fare at that Fest, which was gore and exploitation with no point to the story. I have another Feature that deals with the possible murder of a baby. And still another in which an aging hitman expernences Conversion and then giveshis own life to save the life of his intended victim. I also write screenplays for the sales market. I've optioned a Western, and nearly optioned a misdirection cop thriller. One of my future projects to film myself is another story with the theme of long-term consequences of bad decisions, and involves a Snuff filmmaker.
I guess it's obvious where I stand on this question. The issue is not the genre. It's how you handle the material, how you shoot and edit it, and where you go with it.
I went to Cloud Ten – Marketing to church youth groups for Halloween – Guys I have seen way to many kids going down the wrong path because of horror – I think the film has merit but the marketing does not!
I can see this being an effective movie for me to bring some of my adult friends but to market it to youth or to church youth groups is irresponsible.
This is an interesting controversy. I think both sides presented their arguments horribly, no matter which side you're on. The first guy gave no reason for his position other than personal experience, which I don't think should be used to convince other people. The guy after him just talked about witnessing opportunities, which is only valid if you believe that Horror isn't wrong. Anyone who had sided with the first guy would write the second off as just a compromiser.
My biggest objection to this film is my total inability to take it seriously. I haven't seen the actual film, but I stifled a laugh when I saw the poster and the tagline on the front.
My opinion is that horror is fine for Christians and, ultimately, no different from any other genre. I feel that the burden of proof is on the side of those who say it shouldn't be done. I'm fine with saying we should be careful with this type of film, but can anyone give me a reason why horror is wrong in absolute terms?
"…that we need to stop preaching to the choir with our films…"
BINGO.
( :
It's interesting though not surprising how many have responded. It seems for the most part a great majority of people, many of whom are Christian are supporting the use of horror films if in their minds there is sufficient reason to do so. Where we may all have our opinions (I certainly have mine) they are nothing more than just opinions. When we are introducing our own way and not God's we are treading on dangerous territory. Some people here have gone as far as quoting scripture to support their on petty arguments. I fear the day will come where almost anything is tolerated and considered legit when we invoke our own human standards rather than biblical ones. Evil cannot be used to create a greater good and where the filmmakers to "Dangerous Calling" and "The Familiar" may have a genuine heart to reach people it will in the end do more harm then good as there is no biblical basis for the work.
Jeremy horror is never fine. We cannot support occult in any form.
I intentionaly steered clear of this controversy at first because I try to steer clear of controversies as much as possible. But I'm going to post a simple idea that I think shows the "real" problem with this argument all together: Should we label anything "christian film" besides a documentary?
In the main stream world films are split into genres: action, suspense, drama, comedy, horror, etc. But some how in the "christian world" we slap the word "christian" in front of everything. I have a few concerns on that issue. First, it sticks you in a limited niche market of people who like that genre and are christians. Very limiting. Second, by sticking the world "christian" in front of the genre it puts the emphasis on the "christian" more than the genre. Third, by putting the emphasis on a religion over the story it requests that the audience first judge the film on whether they think it's "good" enough to fit that title". By doing this we open ourselves up to criticism on "religious" terms vs. being criticized based on how well we told the story through the cinematic arts.
As a cinematic storyteller and a Christian should I have to always think, "what story should I tell that is acceptable as 'christian'"? or should I be led by my ability to tell a story? I would rather allow the story to dictate the artistic and story decisions and allow my "who I am" to bleed through into my work. (Not everything I make reflects my spiritual beleifs, some are just interesting stories, reflections of the world as I see them).
sincerely,
John W. Bosley
Revolutionary filmmaker who created "The Allan Carter Saga Part I: AMNESIA" and the new site for indie filmmakers: rebfest.com
I am not an expert on this subject at all. However the question to me would you be comfortable with the Lord Jesus Christ sitting next to you watching a so called Christian horror movie. I remember a hearing a former rock star saying you don't have be a rock star to tell kids about Jesus. We sometimes try to fit in with the world. We try to be just like them to like us. The convicting power of the holy spirit is what brings people to make a decision in their lives . If you are a movie maker, or whatever your goal should be to please God. I grew up in legalism. However we try sometimes to pawn off everything as legalism when its not. If you are just making a movie fine. If you try to sell it as Christian, then make it pleasing to the Lord. He will be your judge not me. Thanks tom McCall
Chris, my only response to that can be to ask what in the world you're talking about. If you can give me a logical argument linking horror film inseparably to the occult, I'll gladly concede your point. But no one's done that so far.
It seems to me that the real question here is; "What does horror inherently actually have to do with the occult?" If someone can answer that question intelligently, we'll have something solid to discuss.
Aren't all Christian films horror movies?
I don't feel it is in any way supporting the occult as it is exposing it! I guess as it was put you cannot ingnore the gorilla sitting in the room and pretend it doesn't exist. In addtion to my knowledge I don't know many film makers that don't have a target audience. If you are filming something that you ask "If I was a 12 yr old boy would I be aroused?"
and you affirm that it is then you yourself maybe shouldn't have filmed it to begin with. While I understand there are weaknesses, I don't think we are talking about porn,blood,guts, and gore. What I believe we are talking about are things of a spritual nature and some of the behaviours that would go with oppression or even possesion and how to deal with that in a biblical manner. Didn't that happen several times in the bible? Were not the Apostles "exposed" to demonic forces? Were they not tuaght how to identify and deal with them? If you believe there are Angels from Heaven surrounding us then being in the world why would there not be the Fallen angels of Lucifer also being around us? One post brings up C.S.Lewis and the "Screw Tape Latters" The entire book is a disccusion between an Arch Demon and a lower Demon on how to opress a believer. Yet many read the book and it is highly informitive in the ways of the Satan and his hoard and how to deal with them. What differnce then would it be if Cloud Ten made a movie about the book? In fact it might really open some eyes.
Paul and Eric….wow. You guys really struck a chord in the community, with this explosive question. I could get just passionate about this subject as the next person, since Christ through media is close to my heart.
** I HAD TO CONSIDER THIS SUBJECT BEFORE I AUDITIONED AND ACTED IN A LEAD ROLE IN A "THRILLER" Christian faith film.**
I sought God's heart first. Then, I searched MY heart about why I would want to visit FEAR time and time again, for the sake of being BELIEVABLE to the audience. Well, that wasn't hard since we have ALL DEALT WITH IT A TIME OR TWO. However, as the actress, my motivation all the way through was to equip the audience the tools to combat fear in their own lives. Who it comes from, what avenues we take to allow fear to torment you and how not to!
IF, and that is IF we DO a horror film as a "Christian", OUR MOTIVES SHOULD BE PURE. There better be a message that leads to the redemptive power of Christ which ultimately casts down all fear. We should reverance God with "fear and trembling". All else, is questionable.
ALSO, another thing to keep in mind as a scriptwriter or like a CLOUDTEN pictures company, Jesus was always PASSING THRU. So, if we do a HORROR FILM, don't get hung up there. Evil has many faces. Keep moving or we are just "entertaining the spirits!! There is lots of material people!! Let's use our resources…look to us little people!!
I do however, agree with a couple writer up above. How would we reach a porn audience?? A homosexual audience?? God will certainly DOWNLOAD the CORRECT and CREATIVE material, WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT. We should not be carelessly putting out "entertaining" film for the sake of creating something. At the same time, while not being careless, do it "AS UNTO THE LORD", or else we will just be offensive and stained.
We must stay pure hearted and check our motives.
Hey!! I think we should pray for more writers that have "been there", so THEY can make these creative film/edgy and relatable AND be pure hearted at the same time! Amen. I'm on it!
God Bless You All and may he increase our discernment!
Dawn Bursell
It really doesn't matter, because there is no God.
Seriously. Knock it off.
Oh really Mr. Anonymous in comment #97? Prove it! Oh and see my latest post.. it is sure to bring you joy!
In His Majesty's service… the Alpha and Omega, Beginning and End, First and Last, the KING OF KINGS, THE ALMIGHTY JESUS the CHRIST!
From your friend and blogger… Eric
Like most of the contributors to this conversation, I have seen a number of non-Christian "thriller", "horror", even "occult" films in my time, although in recent years I've shied away from them, as filmmakers reach ever downward into depravity in their efforts to reach audiences that I think have been desensitized to human suffering. We know that some of these films could not have been made or released, say, 50 years ago – and I suspect some of that represents standards of right and wrong that were higher then … but I also recognize that contemporary audiences have been fed ever larger doses of sadism, violence and evil … and seem, like the young Greeks on Mars Hill, to be looking constantly "for some new thing".
In any event, I've noticed that in most of these non-Christian films, the characters, especially the victims, seem to be utterly devoid of any system of belief that would enable them to deal with their tormenters. And I think that a film in this genre that demonstrates the power of Christ to empower his people to overcome evil, and save themselves and extend Christ's love to those who come to discover him, would be a great evangelical tool. But the script would be a very tricky proposition – you'd want to avoid "preachiness", and give us real flesh-and-blood characters, as opposed to cardboard "line sayers" whose only function is simply to spout Bible verses or dogma.
One thing that's always been a comfort to me is the vast range of personalities, backgrounds, income, professions and reputations of the 12 Apostles – from a fisherman to a civil servant to physician et al. What it says to me is that Christ's message can come from many different voices and in many different formats. I would love to see a "horror" film that shows us some of the varied ways in which Christ can give us victory.
@Eric-
Prove there IS a God. It works both ways. I accept that there is no god because there is no concrete evidence of one, and the existence of a God matching the Christian description makes far less sense than the fact that the universe is a place far more vast than I can imagine and I am incredibly fortunate to have come to be.
As for the book, congratulations, that is very exciting. I look forward to the testimonials, I'm sure they will be an interesting read. The 'proofs,' however, I expect to be torturous.
<3, #97